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Learning about Dark Souls 2 makes me sad

Learning about Dark Souls 2 makes me sad
Posted 02:15pm 18/12/12 by: limimi
17 Comments | 0 Faves
After it was announced at the VGAs that Dark Souls 2 was in the works, many people were sceptical. Not me, I was excited, because I am an optimist, but many other people were sceptical. This trepidation was increased by Director Tomohiro Shibuya's comments to Edgethat the sequel would be more accessible and less inscrutable.




Shibuya's approach differs from that of Hidetaka Miyazaki - the man behind the first Dark Souls and Demon's Souls before it and people were worried this sequel would end up being somewhat alien to its forebears. A worry which was on good footing it seems, as Edge today released a second excerpt from their feature on Dark Souls 2, in which Shibuya further explains what he means:

Right in the beginning when players first pick up the game is something that I will definitely focus on. To not immediately throw them into Dark Souls but provide a good introduction in terms of what the game’s about and how the game should be played. Hopefully that adjustment at the very beginning of the game will help draw in players and get them addicted right away without immediately making players feel rejected [by] the game system itself.


Welp.

Shibuya also talks about making the story elements more overt and how the covenant system was 'difficult to fully absorb and experience in Dark Souls.' Because who wants a world with deeper mystery and a hidden subtext of an intricate and living world when you could have a bunch of cut-scenes? Oh, I know - maybe in Dark Souls 2 you can play as a rock star touring Lordran and instead of battles we have match-3 puzzles?

While I'm complaining - and primarily because Dark Souls 2 has brought this little talking point back to life - Dark Souls and Demon's Souls were not extremely difficult. I am really sick of press saying that. I get it, you played the game and you died heaps, because Dark Souls is punishing. That doesn't mean it is difficult, it means you suck at it. You are supposed to learn how to play, that's the point. Once you do you will wonder how you ever died to anything in the Undead Burg. Maybe if bunches of idiots who hadn't played the games didn't shout about its difficulty every time they saw it, we wouldn't end up with whatever travesty it sounds like we're getting next year. Cripes.
Comments on this Article
Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:05pm
Logic_Incarnate
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:05pm

You sir are a fool.

How dare a game company want to make a game that you can play without having to look up a guide on the internet first.

Just because they make some of the story more obvious, such as the main plot line, does not mean there will be no "hidden" story elements. Don't forget that these are the people who said that we should all pick a starting object that turned out to do absolutely nothing.

Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:25pm
Joaby
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:25pm

But Souls games are about the journey of discovery. You're not supposed to look up a guide, you're supposed to work it out for yourself.

Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:33pm
Machinist
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:33pm

I haven't finished the game by any stretch but doesn't the subtlety of the story make the game more about exploration than a story driven narrative?

Logic, I think you're going to find that most Souls' fans will be asking why are they fixing it if it isn't broken.

Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:44pm
Logic_Incarnate
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:44pm

From the quote - "[H]elp draw in players and get them addicted right away without immediately making players feel rejected [by] the game system itself."

I would expect/hope them to explain things like "this is what happens when you die" and "did you know you can jump" rather than putting one path in front of you and saying "now go to point A and press button B". A game that make you work EVERYTHING out for yourself is a failure. There should be a balance between providing an easy point of access for new players while still allowing the die hards to explore beneath the surface level of the story and systems to discover the juicy center.

I just don't think people should leap to the immediate conclusion that just because a developer calls their game accessible that it is going to be made for babies. If you love the game, have some faith in the developers.

Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:50pm
Joaby
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 3:50pm

The part that scares me is "how the game should be played"

And if it was Miyazaki making the game I'd have all the faith in the world, because he's earned that. It's why I didn't flip out when Eurogamer said he said the game should have an easier difficulty (later found to be a mistranslation).

Shibuya hasn't earned my confidence yet, and he's not inspiring it with his talk.

Tue 18 Dec 12, 5:52pm
BeeJaY
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 12, 5:52pm

I never finished the first one because i stopped playing it for a while then forgot where the hell i was up to. I was supposed to kill a whole bunch of bosses to open the door to the last boss or something...

Wed 19 Dec 12, 1:00am
Hotcakes
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 1:00am

"You sir are a fool." - Logic_Incarnate

Time for a name change methinks.

How dare a game company want to make a game that you can play without having to look up a guide on the internet first.

Sorry to hear you sucked at the game. I beat both games on my first play through without any help from the internet.

I would expect/hope them to explain things like "this is what happens when you die"

Which they did via the principle of 'show, don't tell'.

and "did you know you can jump" rather than putting one path in front of you and saying "now go to point A and press button B".

That's the opposite of explaining how to play the game.

A game that make you work EVERYTHING out for yourself is a failure.

In the eyes of people who don't have a brain they can muster.

There should be a balance between providing an easy point of access for new players while still allowing the die hards to explore beneath the surface level of the story and systems to discover the juicy center.

Which Demons' Souls did nearly perfectly.

I just don't think people should leap to the immediate conclusion that just because a developer calls their game accessible that it is going to be made for babies.

Why would any dev start bucking the trend now?

If you love the game, have some faith in the developers.

New director giving new direction means new faith counter.

I was supposed to kill a whole bunch of bosses to open the door to the last boss or something...

Yeah, there you go. Start with that :p

Each boss is behind each of the 5 world stone portal thingies in the hub. Pick one and jump back in! Slowly.

Wed 19 Dec 12, 8:36am
Junglist
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 8:36am

Yeah, that "how the game should be played" is what scares me too. That and the talk about explaining the story more. But I guess it could be along the lines of "Warning, you'll get out of this game what you put into it." Here's hoping.

Calling a spade a spade, there are parts of the game which no one will get to without a visit to the Wiki. And no matter how many praises I sing, even saying Demon's is one of my favourites of all time, so many people I know give up after 20 minutes in 1-1. Partly the press' fault I think, and it can happen to any game with depth. Writers without sufficient time/interest to invest will draw quick conclusions, condemning Dead or Alive for its tits, Final Fantasy for its 20 hour intros, MGS for cutscenes, and Souls games for their brand of pain, etc. I don't know what the solution is, I certainly don't want it dumbed down (I think Dark is easier than Demon's), but I'd also like to be able to share the experience a bit more. I'm sure a lot of people think Souls fans are just difficulty hipsters, not realising how much cool **** there is beyond 1-1.

I'm really excited about the Monster Hunter talent being involved too, and that plus the server-based multiplayer makes me think there'll be some bosses designed for co-op (as well as the obvious pvp possibilities). They've tried so many new things in the two so far, but I wonder if since this is an official sequel, a "2", they'll mostly keep to what Dark was.

Wed 19 Dec 12, 9:02am
Machinist
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 9:02am

"A game that make you work EVERYTHING out for yourself is a failure."

Except it wasn't, either time.

Wed 19 Dec 12, 10:25am
Joaby
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 10:25am

Jung, a game with a 20 hour intro/tutorial whole-heartedly deserves condemnation.

Wed 19 Dec 12, 2:33pm
bieltanman
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 2:33pm

every time i read a post from joab or jung i read it in there voice

Wed 19 Dec 12, 8:00pm
Kindle
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 8:00pm

I understand that the game want you to discover. But the game is for a small niche of gamers, that don't have anything else to do then figure out or guess what the game-designers want you to do. All the mainstream gamers will hate this because they need to use more time on internet , finding answers, then play the game.
Shaka / blog: kindlefiresupport.net

Wed 19 Dec 12, 10:06pm
Hotcakes
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 12, 10:06pm

the game is for a small niche of gamers

Which is exactly how it should be. A game in any given genre should only be trying to appeal to the niche that find that genre interesting.

WHY THE **** DOES EVERY GAME NEED TO APPEAL TO A MAINSTREAM AUDIENCE AND WHO ARE THESE MAINSTREAM FUCKERS ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIDENTLY RETARDED

imad

Thu 20 Dec 12, 10:06am
Joaby
Posted: Thu 20 Dec 12, 10:06am

You're replying to a bot

Thu 20 Dec 12, 11:02am
Hotcakes
Posted: Thu 20 Dec 12, 11:02am

That's an impressive automatically generated on topic piece of text with fine grammar, then.

Sat 22 Dec 12, 5:18pm
Junglist
Posted: Sat 22 Dec 12, 5:18pm

Haha yeah the relevance of that bot comment had me cracking up

Sat 22 Dec 12, 7:52pm
Hotcakes
Posted: Sat 22 Dec 12, 7:52pm

Hey Jung hope you're recovering from your sickness in time for Xssy.

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