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The problem with Dota 2 me.

The problem with Dota 2 me.
Posted 10:59am 17/04/12 by: Joaby
21 Comments | 0 Faves
I've been playing in the Dota 2 beta for the past weekend, and it wasn't until I actually learned how the game works that I realised the ultimate truth about it - I don't want to play Dota 2.

I'm not saying it's a bad game, because it's not. Some people mistake an aggressively steep learning curve for failure on the part of the creators, but that's a mistake which is slowly killing what video games can be. It's a good game, it's just hard to play.

It's not the community, because I had something of an epiphany about the rampant f@#$headed-ness (that I'll explain later), and there are a significant amount of players who are actually attempting to be helpful. Props to 'AFK Farmer', who was very patient with me in my first game.

Screenshot
Trust me, this isn't even remotely as bad as it gets.


No, to explain why I don't want to play Dota 2 I have to explain how the game works - or my understanding of it, at least - and hope you understand that ultimately the problem lies with me, and not the game.

If you imagine Dota 2 like a game of basketball, you'll have an easier time picking up the rest of the game - though you have to do a bit of work to make the connection stick.

First of all, you've got two teams of five playing across two halves comprised of three lanes. Your goal is to drive a lane down to the goal, your opponents home base tree thing. Your opponents obviously want to stop you - and they want to get to your home base tree thing.

The lanes are filled with creeps from both teams which wander down to the base of the opposing team. You can think about killing creeps as dribbling - you're doing it constantly, and if you're not you're not playing the game properly. Ideally you want to get the last hit on creeps - last hits are worth gold and extra XP, so it's the ideal way to increase your characters worth.

Screenshot
Run little Lifestealer, run!


Players have roles, and there are many different definitions known to the better learned players, but the core two remain the same - there are Carrys and Supports. Carrys carry the team, like Kobe Bryant for the last four years. Supports support the Carrys - making sure the Carrys get the last hits so they can power up faster as well as helping to gank other heroes - the Wades or Pippens.

Map awareness is probably the most important part of playing Dota 2 well - meaning you don't simply stick to your lane, you have to go where your team needs you. When other members of your team are 'pushing' (attacking hard) a lane it can be beneficial for you to leave your position to create a mismatch - allowing your team to score with greater ease.

The similarity of the map can be related to basketball as well - it's the court. The elements of a bball court (that's what we fly mack daddies call it) don't change, and neither do the dimensions of a Dota 2 map - you just have to learn to deal with that.

Differences between heroes are outside the scope of my explanation - it's not like Derek Derrick Rose can shoot lightning from his hands, and Charles Barkley never really had a Chaos Dunk (though Chris Bosh has a fantastic life-stealing passive). Heroes are a huge part of understanding the game though, so I'll explain them anyway.

Screenshot
The grand master Chris Bosh commands you to submit your soul unto me!


There are 108 different heroes in the game, and according to those who play it regularly if you don't know them ALL you don't know how to play the game right. So you can spend a couple of hours learning the ins and outs of one hero - which items they should equip, what their role is, what your mum does in her free time, whether you were born under powerlines or not - only to then move on to the next hero, starting from scratch all over again.

Or you can do what I did, and just pick a random hero each time, never really learning how to play any of them and still muddling out the same questions. Dota 2 does its best to help you - it recommends items that are useful at certain stages through the match, which helps you understand what you should be buying - but at the end of the day you're still probably going to pick your skills in an order deemed unsatisfactory by your teammates.

Scoring takes some work with this analogy, but I can make it work. A kill on an enemy hero is a basket, as is killing a tower. Killing the home base tree thing is game over, so it's not so much a basket as it is smashing the backboard at a community court (because then everyone has to play Netball).

Of course, the 'low scoring' nature of the game is where it all sort of breaks down for me. You won't get a lot of baskets because if people are playing properly they're not getting killed all that often. So you wind up pushing lanes and setting screens and attempting to ambush people, but because players have good map awareness they usually don't get caught out until endgame, when (from what I've seen) the whole plan goes out the window and the team losing their home base tree thing starts dying a lot.

Screenshot
Back to business as usual, I see.


In this way the basketball Dota 2 resembles is more like NBL than NBA - most trips down the lane don't result in anyone scoring, there's a lot of running back and forth to ultimately no avail and you wonder a little how some players made the team.

Which means that when you - a person who literally finished downloading the game moments ago - walk into the Sydney Kings locker room with a towel on your shoulder and a smile on your face, attempting to not accidently stare at anyone's *****, it should come as no surprise that none of them are happy to see you.

Think about it. They're already the Sydney Kings, and now they have to contend with you. Also, for the purposes of this metaphor you're now me, and you're awful at basketball. You all wander out onto the court and you look the tallest one dead in his goddamn eye and say 'I don't actually know how to play this game.'

No wonder they hate you. The whistle blows, and the game begins and you immediately let the other team score five baskets on you in a row. People watching on the sidelines are laughing, like they're watching some giant joke, and you're doing your best to use your face to block dunks and your teammates are dying inside.

Screenshot
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the bots started swearing endlessly at me.


One of the guys decides to try and help you out a little bit, but this means him giving you one of his arms so he's not really playing to his full potential. The whole team starts to suffer even more than they normally do, and naturally all of them feel like it's probably at least partly your fault.

So yeah, I get it. I get why everyone who knows how to play Dota 2 hates everyone who doesn't. And the other thing is, I get why I don't want to play Dota 2. I don't like to play Basketball. I'm awful at it. I lack the appropriate skills and I've never really paid much attention to the strategy ("get Shaq on fire, dunk until I have no friends left" is not a strategy) and so I don't like playing the game. But I like watching Basketball, and I enjoy watching Dota 2, too.
Comments on this Article
Mon 16 Apr 12, 7:39pm
bieltanman
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 7:39pm

dont worry joab its a had game and dota 2 isnt that good anyway

Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:17pm
frostedfire
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:17pm

on a side note, this is why everyone in hon and lol plays with premade teams. No matter how bad your team members are, you can account for that and not have to suffer losing a game before it's even started due to the chance of having the idiot on your team

Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:27pm
Rook
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:27pm

Most of the premades are terrible. I played DOTA1 back in the day and DOTA2 I am finding very boring even when playing solo as I tend to dominate regardless of the hero I'm playing. This is because there are so many new players who are unfamilar to the massive learning curve of the game. Basically, even if the other team has 1 or 2 good players who have played since "back in the day", I can just feed off the others.

I was lucky that I had mates teach me how to play, but I got royally a$$f'd until I did. It is _very_ frustrating to learn if you are on your own.

On a side note, it tends to bring out the worst in people. The community is very negative and abusive especially due to how frustrating the game can be at times, if you have people on your team letting you down or deliberately feeding etc.

Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:33pm
bieltanman
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 8:33pm

dota heros suck i mean lion hes **** ws is much better

Mon 16 Apr 12, 9:45pm
Frisco
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 9:45pm

As someone who plays Starcraft a fair amount, "Why control one character when you can control 200?"

I've only recently started playing as well. I like it simply because it's a nice change to mindlessly blowing up creeps and the short feeling of achievement when you kill someone, which i only get once in starcraft.

still, the game for me will just be bot stomping, as the idea of depending on other people over the internet is kinda flawed and the game is ruining my other rts skills like macro and map control.

Mon 16 Apr 12, 10:20pm
snarfstein
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 10:20pm

Haha yeah, I agree with Frisco, one unexpected side effect of playing LoL for me has been (at least it feels like) a dulling of my RTS skill!

Mon 16 Apr 12, 11:33pm
Gung-ho
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 11:33pm

But you can apply that to any team based game when playing with randoms - there is always going to be animosity towards weak players. The thing with DOTA is that because team sizes are smaller a weak player has less to off-set it. The other flaw I find in DOTA is that once domination begins there is little turning it back and it becomes a game of delaying the inevitible. Okay the counter to that point is that domination is achieved by being the better skilled team which is 100% valid.

What about when the team changes though? Maybe that weak player wasn't weak but they were distracted by porn or something. Done with their distraction the losing team is now technically better but because the game plays a lot like dominos the fight back options are heavily limited.

Mon 16 Apr 12, 11:43pm
Joaby
Posted: Mon 16 Apr 12, 11:43pm

I think it's compounded by the sheer incline of the learning curve, which means that a person who knows nothing is far worse than just a bad player - they're actively detrimental to the game. You're right about the dominoes though - I spend a lot of time watching games and once one barracks falls it seems like it could be called then and there, like in a game of chess.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 12:11am
Rook
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 12:11am

The irony is I JUST had a game in which we were dominating - I was playing Bounty Hunter and at 7-1 K/D. Score was 30-16 overall. They had an SK who hadn't died and Drow who knew how to play, SK got a gem and Drow dust - I was pretty much powerless from that point on. They coordinated and defended the weaker players (there was a Death Prophet who I was enjoying feeding off... and ended up winning the match.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 12:35am
cutthroat
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 12:35am

to be honest this game looks shithouse an games like this bore the **** outta me

Tue 17 Apr 12, 4:56am
max1c
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 4:56am

"So yeah, I get it. I get why everyone who knows how to play Dota 2 hates everyone who doesn't. And the other thing is, I get why I don't want to play Dota 2."

Ok, you "get" nothing. Comparing Dota to basketball is not a worst analogy in the world, but nowhere near a good enough analogy to actually explain how the game works. It’s same as comparing apples to oranges at best. Playing with bots will never teach you anything as their understanding of the game is no deeper than yours. Dota is all about team play and strategy, no single player can win the game no matter support or carry. At the end of the day no matter how bad the player is if he is a team player and is willing to learn his individual skills will increase quickly. And as in any other thing in this life practice makes perfect.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 8:33am
hoax86
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 8:33am

This is why MOBA games shouldn't be discussed on real gaming sites. Suddenly, you have MOBA players thinking they're not the bottom-feeding (lol, pun) scum of the gaming world.

I'd rather see GameArena move exclusively into Facebook and mobile games than start giving actual coverage to this ****.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 8:48am
Joaby
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 8:48am

@max1c -
Dota is all about team play and strategy,


Well that certainly is a damning condemnation of my comparison between MOBA games and bball because you see in bball it is not at all about team play and strategy and it's actually instead all about the individual player and zuh muh buh guh?

I'm not sure what part of my 1300 word piece where I demonstrate that I know little about basketball and even less about dota confused you into thinking I was writing a tutorial on how to play dota, but if you point it out for me I'll do my best to purge it from the article.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 10:02am
GetNerdeD
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 10:02am

@bieltanman
Not sure if you are trolling or just ignorant and stupid. DotA and hon is different games, heroes have different roles and are built differently.

@Frisco
Map control is just as important in Dota as in starcraft. Maybe even more important since you actually have a lot more to watch out for. When it comes to micro there is micro heavy heroes as Chen and Meepo as well, maybe not as much as you need in starcraft but still.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 10:59am
Machinist
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 10:59am

I actually thought it was a fairly solid article from the stand point of someone who has never played a MOBA game before, since Basketball I understand. Cheers.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 11:38am
Joaby
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 11:38am

Cheers Machinist!

Also I had it pointed out to me that I misspelled Derrick Rose, and I'd like to say it's because **** the Bulls but really it's just because I dun goof'd.

Tue 17 Apr 12, 5:31pm
Smithyo
Posted: Tue 17 Apr 12, 5:31pm

I'd hardly say the learning curve is steep, I'd say the learning curve is well... f***ing long. Games like SC2 or Q3 the learning curve is steep, it is actually hard to be good at those games. DOTA2 is more about time played, the more you play the better chance you get to learn the in's and out's of each hero, there rules, strengths and weaknesses.

Thu 19 Apr 12, 1:59pm
juicestarrr
Posted: Thu 19 Apr 12, 1:59pm

I really enjoy DOTA 2... but on a side note i cant believe you compared Dwaye Wade to a support hero? Dwade would definetly be a Carry lol...

Sun 22 Apr 12, 2:55am
max1c
Posted: Sun 22 Apr 12, 2:55am

"I'm not sure what part of my 1300 word piece where I demonstrate that I know little about basketball and even less about dota"
I'm not sure what part of my 155 word piece where I demonstrate that "you don't know anything about basketball" and where "I" said that "you wrote a guide on how to play Dota". As I already said, you just don't get it... Comparing Dota to basketball is like comparing apples to oranges at best. Yes, they both have 5 players, yes they are both games, yes they are both team games and yes they are both played on a "court/field". You can compare ANY 2 things and find similarities, but what you fail to understand is the differences. For one, Dota is a computer game and basketball is a physical game where your whole body is involved. You state: "Carrys carry the team, like Kobe Bryant for the last four years" which isn't a bad comparison, but again, what are the differences? On Dota "field" everyone starts out equal, not only they pick a different carry unlike Kobe Bryant who is a single “carry”, but also none of them start as a “super star”. They all begin with no items and level one and all make their way to being a “super star”. And these are only couple of aspects I mentioned not even talking about the actual players behind their roles in the game itself. I’m not writing this to offend you or your perspective. Nor am I going to write a piece on why I think your article is bad, because it’s not. It’s just in my opinion this is an article from a “I don’t understand Dota but I will analyze it” perspective…

Mon 23 Apr 12, 7:37am
limimi
Posted: Mon 23 Apr 12, 7:37am

Wait, basketball is a physical game? Where you move around and stuff? And not everybody is Kobe Bryant in DOTA 2? I am sorry folks, when Joaby asked me to read through this article before he put it up, I assumed he knew what he was talking about. But if all of this is true, I'll have it deleted immediately.

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